Both of your posts are exactly correct

I have learned to set aside my personal feelings towards my ex and be involved with my daughter’s life for her best interest.

Sometimes the men and women in black robes don’t always go in your favor, but nothing can take away your right to be a parent. Learning how to compromise and get along for the best interest of the child is all that matters.

The issue here isn’t simply fathers’ rights or mothers’ rights but the right of children to have two parents actively involved in their lives.

I want to thank EACH & EVERY member of this club as you have expressed your views and experiences that have helped me. Life is full of mistakes… just make the best of it and be there for your kids! Children are a treasure and the time goes by so fast.

Why is it ludicrous to suggest 18 YOs get vasectomies?

Why is it ludicrous to suggest 18 YOs get vasectomies? It’s never ludicrous until it’s been tried and failed. As for you giving up something because she decided she did not love you any more, remember, this is a woman you picked to have children with. Why did she fall out of love with you? Was it something you were doing, or that she was doing? Did you take the time to really know her before you married her? Were you mature enough to be married? Remember, Christ was not consider mature enough to leave home, and go out on his own, until age 30! Men reach their emotional maturity six years later that women.

Should we be allowed to get married, or even have sex, by age 18. It is an outmoded idea that we reach adulthood at age 18. It stems from a time when people only lived an average of 48 years. But, in the last 50 years, the average life span has nearly doubled, and is still increasing. Our aging process is slowing. Along with that is the development of our thinking processes and decision making abilities. We need to be pushing these young men to wait much later before making a commitment to a woman, let alone participating in behavior that can create another life from two people who are not themselves mature enough to be parents. We need to start pushing the idea that women under 24 are just not worth the trouble and stress. And a woman, or man, that does not have the self resolve and control to wait, is not worth having as a mate.

I have looked at your life and experiences, as well as thousands of others. The difference is I look at them from the outside, without the emotional tie in. Yes, something needs to be done about the women, but that something should not include going out, finding another dingbat, and getting her knocked up. You fight the fight, to the living end, for the children you have already. Find new wys to get under her skin. Yesterday I went to court with a father who buys tickets to various functions when he knows she is planning to deny him access to the children.

Then, when we does get them, he sue her in small claims court for the cost of the tickets, court costs, travel expenses, and lost time at work to go to court. This is the third time he’s done it, and won. She was ordered to pay $550. All a result of violating the court order. Then on top of that, he can use the decision in the up comign hearing for denial of visitation, at which he is representing himself. I will be there beside him in front of the court, to help him, as is my right to do so, without being charged for illegal practice of law:

Respondent is a member of the group National Congress for Fathers and Children. Members of groups who are competent non-lawyers can assist other members of the group achieve the goals of the group in court without being charged with “Unauthorized practice of law.” N.A.A.C.P. vs Button (371 US 415), United Mine Workers of America v Gibbs (383 US 715) and Johnson vs Avery 89 S Ct 747 (1969). Also found in Brotherhood of Railroad Trainmen v Virginia ex rel. Virginia State Bar (377 US 1), Gideon vs Wainwright 372 U S 335, Argersinger vs Hamlin, Sheriff 407 U S 425, litigants may be assisted by unlicensed laymen during judicial proceedings; see, Turner v. American Bar Association 407 F Supp 451, 478 (1975). In appropriate circumstances, a Federal Judge may, of course, allow a defendant to proceed with a lay assistant or to orally assist his licensed counsel in the presentation of his case, as was done by the undersigned in United States v. Gaar.

Why should I give up the right

Your right…its pretty unpopular…to me anyway….Why should I give up the right to a family who is with me everyday…because some woman decided she didn’t want to be married to me anymore….Get a grip on reality here….My family being broken up was not my idea…I have a seven year old daughter who loves me very much and tells me so every day….and I do not have to fight her mother to see her or spend time with her.

And it is ludicrous to ask or expect or even think about every 18 year old getting a vasectomy…Your job has burn’t you out….try a new line of work….I am tired of being told by the state what I have to give up in my life because a woman didn’t feel “in love” with me any more. Yes I love my children…all of them…when asked who is my favorite…my answer is the one who needs me most at the time….

I pay my child support… I am even ready to opt for loans from this website (btw, I highly recommend it) – installment loans for bad credit & no credit (MtpLoans) and I battle the state and its unrealistic demands upon my salary…my visitation gets screwed with…..and thank god my children ( first three are grown and can drive and make their own decisions. I guess every mother should have her tongue cut out when she has children…that way she can’t lie and manipulate the system….try to turn my children against me…which she did for 10 years but then it backfired on her when my children got to know me….sounds fair…they cut my tubes while she is lying next to me getting her tongue cut out…BTW…they should also do lobotomies too…

Quit promoting the states rhetoric…trying to convince a man he is second class and his only existence is to pay money “for the children’s sake”…That’s bullshit….besides…my daughter loves her sissy and bubbys very much and they are now a part of her life…but it took them reaching the age to get out of the “system” that people like you created…..so think about it…look at my life and experiences..and tell me I should have gotten a vasectomy….jesus….

Bear these things in mind

#1. A court order is required to modify your support…not a suggestion by your ex or her attorney…They will need to schedule a modification hearing to address this issue. Any time support is modified it requires either an agreed entry signed by both parties..or.. a modification hearing.

I am in the same battle in Indiana…My divorce decree states I am to pay until the children reach 18. No mention of further education. I have been told by the child support prosecutor that the state law says I must pay until they are 21… We go to court next month to battle this…They want to make it retroactive…and they are going to lose…Because if they win..I will sue the ex, court, prosecutor, and the state for breach of contract. They all signed the agreement…and it was an agreement and approved..not ordered by the court.

#2. Another good argument is the cost of room and board and tuition..like you said…you had no say or input in this decision…tell them to try a state college or community college…where it is more affordable…

I’m going to express an unpopular view point here

I’m going to express an unpopular view point here, but I want everyone to remember that I’ve been a full time volunteer for 12 years, working with divorced and single fathers, so I’ve seen these cases where men have children by different women.

Personally, I think it is highly selfish of this man, and any man, to be having children by multiple women when they cannot, or will not, support the children they already have. “Children need both parents” is more than just a saying, it has to be a life. When you have children by a woman, those are the children you need to dedicate your life to, not subdivide you life between those children, and children by another woman. If a man has to have sex, he can do so without producing children. Vasectomies are cheap, easy, and reversible when the first children are grown and he is available to have more. There are plenty of women willing to have children with older men, and even plenty of older women willing to have children despite their age. Our average life spans have been increasing steadily for over 50 years, having nearly doubled since when our grandparents were young. There is plenty of time to have more kids, if we want them.

What would be nice is if young men would get a vasectomy right out of high school. That way they can go around and have sex as much as they want, without having children until they have matured and are ready for that responsibility. Or, have married someone and spent enough time with them to know they are the one they want to have children with and spend a life time with.

What the court should have done was ordered the man to get a vasectomy. That way he can shack up all he wants and not worry about producing more dependents. It would certainly my work easier. And it would make it a lot easier on children to know they have a father that is theirs, and theirs alone. I’m 45, my children are grown, so now I’m out looking again. I would love to have more children, but only now that I no longer of the responsibility of support my daughters. I would even be willing to raise the children of another man, who has run out on his responsibilities. But, not until I have tracked him down to learn why, and to make sure that what I’m being told by her is the truth.

I am wondering

how the former lawyers and judges who comprise Wisconsin’s Supreme Court will explain to the citizens their reasons for incarcerating Mr. Oakley for 8 long years? That cost, I mean, to incarcerate Mr. Oakley would far and away exceed $25,000–TAXPAYER DOLLARS!!!–and so I wonder how they will explain their purpose? How will the taxpayer benefit by locking away Mr. Oakley?

These princes of Wisconsin’s Supreme Court must be masters of Machiavellian principles, and politics, and so I imagine they are saying to themselves, something like: “Hain’t we got all the fools in town on our side? And ain’t that a big enough majority in any town?” (Twain) Perhaps the Wisconsin high court justices are even more sinister and cunning, and, like Hitler, they are saying: “How fortunate for government that the people do not Think.” Human rights, indeed. Since when do Princes (and interested majorities!) think of human rights?

8y Prison for Fathering Child?

I can see both sides of this issue….The man in question really can’t afford to have more children….But with the court’s ruling…this could put responsible fathers who do pay child support and who could ( by some means) afford to have another child with another spouse. In other words this gives the court the latitude to become involved in something they have no usiness in.

Something courts,lawyers,and society seem prone to do and allow to happen. Also is the issue of the man involved. What happens if it is an accidental pregnancy. It would seem as if the court has almost ordered his involuntary sterilization or castration. This is a practice the nazi’s used on the jews and was considered to be a horrible war crime by society. But yet it is effectively what has transpired here. Just doesn’t make much sense to me on any account here…Stupidity abounds on all sides of this issue.

I respectfully submit this thought

I realize the cost of incarcerating the father will exceed $25,000.00 . But and If…. and we all know the danger of those two words…If this man were to have two more children per year….then in 8 years he would have a total of 16 more children….at a cost to the taxpayers of about $500.00 per week that the state would pay in AFDC. This then represents a cost of $26,000.00 per year to the taxpayers….

So maybe these Judges in their attempt to keep this from happening have threatened the man with incarceration….I just don’t understand why they haven’t done something to help or motivate this man to pay his support. If this man were myself…I would have been put in jail when I was only $400.00 behind….been there and done that….so the whole damn mess doesn’t make sense to me….

A guardian ad litem is appointed by the court

…to defend your child and HIS best interests…

So the interests of the child will come first. This is done when the fighting between parents escalates to the point that the child suffers. So please understand that you will not always get what you think is right. It will be what the guardian thinks is right for your child. You will need to put aside any issues concerning your ex and any negative emotions that could be transferred to your child. Your child will, no matter what, suffer from this divorce…it is a fact that cannot be denied. But your child does not have to be involved in the divorce, its issues, or become a casualty in the battlefield between you and your wife.

Your child needs to know that BOTH parents love him or her. You must reassure your child of this…and yes that includes saying the ex spouse loves him or her as much as you do. You need to reassure your child of the future and that you and the ex will both be there for this child…I know that it is tough sometimes to say something good about the ex spouse, or to not let your emotions concerning the divorce to show to your child…but each time you do let them show you hurt your child a little bit more…

Your child is scared and has no idea what the future holds…a child’s mind cannot comprehend like an adults or reason like we do…also…NEVER…NEVER say something derogatory or negative about your ex spouse in front of this child or even when you have visitation with this child..as they might be able to hear you…and this hurts them also…remember…they didn’t choose the two of you as parents….you chose to have them as a child….

Children are resilient…but they do have feelings and something they may not understand right now..but something they might remember..could haunt you and your relationship with them later…so put all divorce and custody emotions aside when dealing with your child and his interests..I wish you luck…it is a hard and rocky road..mistakes will be made…so just do the very best you can for your child….

I went through one of these in my divorce

My children played a little board game with one parent and then the other and the evaluator observed. My oldest son was 6 yrs old at the time and just learning to read. When it was my turn I had him sound out the names on the board game while we played…..The evaluator stated in her report that while playing with the father the child frowned alot…she didn’t mention that he was frowning while concentrating on the vowel sounds and sounding the words out….

It went pretty unfavorable for me and was very one sided…about 6 years later I finally convinced the court to have us evaluated again…This took place at Catholic Social Services, which was the agency picked by the court.

The evaluator there talked to each child and both parents. She stated in her report that the oldest child was angered by the divorce and the teachings his mother was trying to give him concerning the character of his father. She reported that the children had been misled and taught to no longer respect their father and that I was the enemy. She recommended that my ex receive counseling.

What was ironic was that I am not the one who wanted the divorce nor was I violent,abusive, or commit adultery. My ex was the one in love with someone else….Needless to say after that things seemed to go my way a lot more in court…My advice…be yourself…don’t lie or act….and interact well with your children…..No matter the outcome…you are still one of the parents….and they need you!